WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.359 --> 00:00:01.709 Veronica Wells (she/her): In about a minute or two. 2 00:01:15.090 --> 00:01:17.430 Veronica Wells (she/her): Okay, well, I think we can go ahead and get started. 3 00:01:19.050 --> 00:01:24.690 Veronica Wells (she/her): Hello everyone i'm rockwell's assistant Dean for user services and programs and i'm excited to welcome you. 4 00:01:24.690 --> 00:01:27.870 Veronica Wells (she/her): To this talk and Title reproductive rights and justice. 5 00:01:27.900 --> 00:01:37.770 Veronica Wells (she/her): A conversation between Dr lomax and Professor co packer lomax pacific's Vice President for diversity equity inclusion and Professor co is with specific switchboard school of law. 6 00:01:38.490 --> 00:01:47.520 Veronica Wells (she/her): Before we get started, I wanted to go over our Community standards, we ask that you stay muted during the session if you'd like to share your thoughts, please use the chat. 7 00:01:47.940 --> 00:01:57.330 Veronica Wells (she/her): I will be monitoring the chat during our session today you have any questions that you would like to pose to Professor co you can put those in the chat and I will share them during the q&a portion. 8 00:02:00.930 --> 00:02:14.310 Veronica Wells (she/her): I also invite you to use I statements maintain confidentiality be present mind body and heart be mindful of different communication styles be curious know that it's okay to admit you don't have the answers. 9 00:02:14.790 --> 00:02:23.850 Veronica Wells (she/her): expect at except non closure explore impact and acknowledge intent and with that I will hand it over to Dr lomax. 10 00:02:25.800 --> 00:02:28.260 Mary Lomax-Ghirarduzzi (she/her): Thank you so much assistant. 11 00:02:28.320 --> 00:02:35.340 Mary Lomax-Ghirarduzzi (she/her): Dean and Professor wells, it is so good to see all of us here on this beautiful Monday. 12 00:02:36.030 --> 00:02:44.820 Mary Lomax-Ghirarduzzi (she/her): And we're sitting at the Stockton campus but I know it's beautiful and San Francisco and sacramento as well, and if you happen to be somewhere else. 13 00:02:45.600 --> 00:02:57.300 Mary Lomax-Ghirarduzzi (she/her): you're on vacation you're on holiday your was family, maybe you're traveling we want to say thank you so much for joining us today this is going to be a digital learning object, meaning that this. 14 00:02:58.110 --> 00:03:08.580 Mary Lomax-Ghirarduzzi (she/her): conversation is being recorded for the purposes of ongoing teaching and learning, as well as research purposes for students faculty and staff and so know that the. 15 00:03:09.330 --> 00:03:16.980 Mary Lomax-Ghirarduzzi (she/her): items and the conversations and things that we do in the diversity equity inclusion Office here at the University of the Pacific is considered. 16 00:03:17.880 --> 00:03:35.400 Mary Lomax-Ghirarduzzi (she/her): Learning material and we generally will record our sessions for the for ongoing research and learning purposes, with that I just want to tell you tell the Community a little bit more about this remarkable scholar. 17 00:03:36.390 --> 00:03:47.700 Mary Lomax-Ghirarduzzi (she/her): leader thinker teacher that we happen to have here at the University of the Pacific, one of the things I love to do is that if you know anything about me I like to animate other people's work. 18 00:03:48.750 --> 00:03:55.710 Mary Lomax-Ghirarduzzi (she/her): And what I how I do, that is that once I find out what someone's gifts talents and abilities are is that I have to find a way. 19 00:03:56.070 --> 00:04:09.090 Mary Lomax-Ghirarduzzi (she/her): to connect it with the equity and inclusion work so that their voice is amplified and for the greater good, and this case for the greater good of the Pacific community, but hopefully I like to think that Pacific is. 20 00:04:09.600 --> 00:04:23.160 Mary Lomax-Ghirarduzzi (she/her): As a national leader so it's for the greater good of higher education society broadly Professor editor Lena co as you've heard is a professor of law here at the University of the Pacific George school. 21 00:04:24.660 --> 00:04:42.000 Mary Lomax-Ghirarduzzi (she/her): ethylene it teaches global loitering skills one into as well as the prisoner civil rights mediation clinic and an area of scholarship and expertise is reproductive rights and justice, I was really moved and. 22 00:04:44.100 --> 00:05:01.980 Mary Lomax-Ghirarduzzi (she/her): taken back by the brilliance of a recent article that she wrote that was published in the rutgers law review just last year, and so this is a very relevant hot off the press fall 2021. 23 00:05:02.640 --> 00:05:15.000 Mary Lomax-Ghirarduzzi (she/her): piece that she wrote and created a framework called a portion privilege, if you haven't yet read this this document, I urge you to do so and. 24 00:05:15.510 --> 00:05:26.760 Mary Lomax-Ghirarduzzi (she/her): put that on your reading list, and if you're a professor and or teacher or staff member that you include this in your ongoing work because Professor coast work is just brilliant. 25 00:05:27.840 --> 00:05:39.300 Mary Lomax-Ghirarduzzi (she/her): And she just a little bit more about her, she graduated cum laude she grew up in the central Valley, he grew up in sacramento but, when it made her way back east. 26 00:05:40.140 --> 00:05:45.390 Mary Lomax-Ghirarduzzi (she/her): After her undergraduate and she graduated cum laude from the georgetown university law Center. 27 00:05:45.660 --> 00:05:52.890 Mary Lomax-Ghirarduzzi (she/her): And she was editor of Chief of the georgetown Journal of gender and law so she's been thinking about gender and law issues. 28 00:05:53.160 --> 00:06:01.470 Mary Lomax-Ghirarduzzi (she/her): In the law, for a long time, additionally, she received the National Association of women lawyers outstanding last student Award for contribution. 29 00:06:01.680 --> 00:06:10.800 Mary Lomax-Ghirarduzzi (she/her): To the advancement of women in society, and I was fortunate since i've been here in my very first year just this past spring I was able to award her. 30 00:06:11.370 --> 00:06:18.930 Mary Lomax-Ghirarduzzi (she/her): The 2022 women of distinction award was she was nominated as a woman of distinction here at the. 31 00:06:19.620 --> 00:06:28.560 Mary Lomax-Ghirarduzzi (she/her): Pacific and so that was my first time really engaging her and that's when I started to discover just how brilliant she is but a couple more things is that she. 32 00:06:29.070 --> 00:06:44.580 Mary Lomax-Ghirarduzzi (she/her): is a member of a bar, both in the state of California, as well as the district of Columbia and just last year, she began serving as a pro tip judge for the sacramento county superior court, needless to say. 33 00:06:45.960 --> 00:06:52.920 Mary Lomax-Ghirarduzzi (she/her): Outstanding credentials, but more so that I just really wanted to just bring to you just someone with just a lot of great heart. 34 00:06:53.310 --> 00:07:05.400 Mary Lomax-Ghirarduzzi (she/her): and introduce her more broadly, to the university community, so the way that we're going to do it, is that I have some questions for Professor co and she's going to respond to them and. 35 00:07:06.450 --> 00:07:20.730 Mary Lomax-Ghirarduzzi (she/her): Professor Veronica wells is going to be monitoring the chat So if you have any question that comes to you we're going to ask you to form it as best that you can we're going to ask you to stay muted and then at the end we're going to have. 36 00:07:21.510 --> 00:07:32.610 Mary Lomax-Ghirarduzzi (she/her): Veronica is going to grab some of those and retry to see if we can perhaps have Professor co respond to perhaps two of those we know we have a short period of time, so we're going to go ahead and get going okay so. 37 00:07:33.630 --> 00:07:35.100 Mary Lomax-Ghirarduzzi (she/her): Professor editor Lena Co. 38 00:07:36.840 --> 00:07:50.940 Mary Lomax-Ghirarduzzi (she/her): I want to help frame this conversation obviously you were thinking of writing about this things before the, the recent decision with the dogs decision that happened. 39 00:07:52.290 --> 00:07:54.390 Mary Lomax-Ghirarduzzi (she/her): I guess now it's all spent two weeks ago. 40 00:07:55.530 --> 00:08:05.670 Mary Lomax-Ghirarduzzi (she/her): And you've been thinking about reproductive justice and rights and been writing about it and teaching about it for a number of years and so. 41 00:08:06.330 --> 00:08:11.880 Mary Lomax-Ghirarduzzi (she/her): Perhaps we can begin our conversation before we talk about the dobbs decision. 42 00:08:12.270 --> 00:08:29.550 Mary Lomax-Ghirarduzzi (she/her): If you can maybe talk about your your your scholarship and and maybe give kind of a basic entry introduction to us on what is reproductive rights, and how does reproductive rights fit into the realm of reproductive justice. 43 00:08:30.840 --> 00:08:44.160 Ederlina Co: i'm absolutely Thank you so much, first to Dr lomax to Professor wells, and to all of you for being here, I know there are million different things that you could be doing in this time, so I appreciate your level of engagement. 44 00:08:44.580 --> 00:08:57.450 Ederlina Co: On this particularly timely topic so one of the classes, that I teach at the law school is a seminar on reproductive rights and justice and it's helpful to kind of think of those two topics separately. 45 00:08:57.930 --> 00:09:03.240 Ederlina Co: But also be aware that they there is significant overlap between them. 46 00:09:03.660 --> 00:09:14.250 Ederlina Co: So when I talk about reproductive rights, or when i'm writing about reproductive rights, what i'm talking about is law strictly law and particularly constitutional law. 47 00:09:14.850 --> 00:09:19.350 Ederlina Co: So when you think about the Constitution, the Constitution is set up in a way. 48 00:09:19.740 --> 00:09:32.700 Ederlina Co: That it organizes for the United States, how our government interacts with the states or how the federal government interacts with State governments how the federal government interacts with the people. 49 00:09:33.090 --> 00:09:46.830 Ederlina Co: And so, when you think about constitutional rights what you're really talking about is the way in which the government interacts with people so when you talk about reproductive rights, what we're talking about is the way that the government. 50 00:09:48.240 --> 00:10:06.180 Ederlina Co: regulates or interferes or burdens women's decision making, when it comes to reproduction, so when I say reproductive rights, what i'm talking about is the right to be free from interference from the government related to women's decision making. 51 00:10:07.320 --> 00:10:15.570 Ederlina Co: Whether it's related to contraception, whether it's related to sterilization whether it's related to or was related to abortion. 52 00:10:16.170 --> 00:10:21.240 Ederlina Co: And so, when you think about reproductive rights as a framework, it is very last centric. 53 00:10:21.840 --> 00:10:29.670 Ederlina Co: But with that law centric nature comes some limitations right, we can say you have a right to contraception. 54 00:10:30.120 --> 00:10:34.980 Ederlina Co: When you say you have that right, it means that the government can't interfere with that right. 55 00:10:35.580 --> 00:10:45.390 Ederlina Co: On the other hand it doesn't mean that the government gives you a benefit to that right it doesn't mean that the government's going to pay for all of your contraception it doesn't mean that the government is. 56 00:10:45.870 --> 00:10:57.330 Ederlina Co: going to allow you to flourish related to those particular rights so that's one of the limitations when it comes to a right it's a negative right, it means that the government won't interfere with it. 57 00:10:59.100 --> 00:11:10.830 Ederlina Co: Because it's law centric it also means that structural changes are difficult to achieve, through a reproductive rights framework, because what you're doing is you're relying on courts to make decisions. 58 00:11:11.220 --> 00:11:27.030 Ederlina Co: And, by their very nature courts have limited role and making policy, and so, in terms of reproductive rights they're sort of winners and losers, but you can't actually say Okay, what we really want is all of these things. 59 00:11:28.290 --> 00:11:39.720 Ederlina Co: The all of these things are going to allow us to flourish, and that is a policy making area, not a court making area, and so, when you think about reproductive rights. 60 00:11:41.250 --> 00:11:45.090 Ederlina Co: It really since its inception there there's been critique about it. 61 00:11:45.960 --> 00:11:55.950 Ederlina Co: Because they're only negative right, so to say, oh, I have a right to choose to have an abortion well that doesn't mean anything if I can't actually pay for it. 62 00:11:56.640 --> 00:12:08.250 Ederlina Co: And so reproductive justice was sort of an outgrowth of reproductive rights being so narrowly focused in the 1980s and the 1990s across the women's movement, as well as across. 63 00:12:08.700 --> 00:12:17.880 Ederlina Co: academia, there was critique about this idea that there was one essential woman and that we all sort of were one essential person. 64 00:12:18.450 --> 00:12:33.300 Ederlina Co: and Professor Kim crenshaw coined the term intersection ality, which is to say that there is no one essential woman, but rather we all bring multiple dimensions, including our sex to any given interaction so. 65 00:12:34.530 --> 00:12:43.620 Ederlina Co: Someone can be a woman, she can also be a person of color her socio economic status is going to influence that too, and so the reproductive justice movement said. 66 00:12:44.220 --> 00:12:57.270 Ederlina Co: Listen reproductive rights are not enough, there needs to be more than just these negative rights are these promises that the government won't interfere with what we're doing and instead there have to be positive rights to. 67 00:12:57.780 --> 00:13:09.600 Ederlina Co: And so the reproductive justice framework is based on negative rights, meaning the government can't interfere with my decision making, but also positive rights, meaning the government should be. 68 00:13:09.900 --> 00:13:14.490 Ederlina Co: Assisting as needed to help us flourish so when you think about. 69 00:13:14.940 --> 00:13:22.890 Ederlina Co: Reproductive Rights you think I have the right to an abortion, when you think about reproductive justice it's not just that I have the right to not have. 70 00:13:23.310 --> 00:13:31.140 Ederlina Co: not have a child, when I don't want to, but also the right to have a child and a right to parent that child once that child is here. 71 00:13:31.470 --> 00:13:43.200 Ederlina Co: And so that has a number of different positive rights associated with it and reproductive justice doesn't look at reproduction just in a vacuum, but rather says. 72 00:13:43.470 --> 00:13:57.690 Ederlina Co: Okay, for for my ability to parent my child that also means I need an access to healthcare, it also means I need access to a living wage, it also means I need environmental safety, it also means I need a safety net. 73 00:13:58.020 --> 00:14:09.360 Ederlina Co: Right, so, in addition to the government staying out of your business, you also need the government to help you flourish as needed and so that sort of is the difference between reproductive rights and justice. 74 00:14:10.020 --> 00:14:19.410 Ederlina Co: But that's, not to say that there isn't a lot of overlap there the same people who are fighting for reproductive rights are the same people fighting for reproductive justice but it it. 75 00:14:20.310 --> 00:14:27.600 Ederlina Co: In many ways, are two different frameworks, whether you're talking about law you're talking about policymaking are talking about grassroots and politics. 76 00:14:29.190 --> 00:14:39.660 Mary Lomax-Ghirarduzzi (she/her): brilliant brilliant and helping us understand how the rights framework which people oftentimes think about you know my rights and responsibilities. 77 00:14:40.320 --> 00:14:57.000 Mary Lomax-Ghirarduzzi (she/her): They forget the responsibilities piece, which is the justice framework, which is that the responsibilities pieces that are in and, as I see it, is that what will you do to ensure that there is a system of support that an individual may need not just the right to do, or to be. 78 00:14:58.320 --> 00:15:03.330 Mary Lomax-Ghirarduzzi (she/her): And the justice framework really as you've already said, Professor Co. 79 00:15:04.410 --> 00:15:13.740 Mary Lomax-Ghirarduzzi (she/her): causes us to think much more holistically more long term intersect to understand the intersections as as a as our. 80 00:15:14.670 --> 00:15:29.640 Mary Lomax-Ghirarduzzi (she/her): Professor crenshaw who was another legal scholar has said, as well to understand that the justice framework is a broader context than the rights framework that's very helpful help me understand. 81 00:15:30.930 --> 00:15:37.920 Mary Lomax-Ghirarduzzi (she/her): Then, then the justice framework was born out of the rights, the narrowness of the rights. 82 00:15:39.750 --> 00:15:50.160 Mary Lomax-Ghirarduzzi (she/her): As I read the article and, as I was introduced through your writing I had never heard of this term, Professor co of abortion privilege. 83 00:15:51.510 --> 00:16:00.780 Mary Lomax-Ghirarduzzi (she/her): But I found it the the piece was just just a phenomenal contribution to the literature, to help us understand. 84 00:16:01.920 --> 00:16:09.780 Mary Lomax-Ghirarduzzi (she/her): And for me to kind of, say, in a very simple way, I felt like I was reading the tale of two realities, instead of the tale of two cities, you know, I was like. 85 00:16:10.200 --> 00:16:18.570 Mary Lomax-Ghirarduzzi (she/her): wow editor Lena was able to just kind of laid out in the legal context that there's two different realities, as we think about. 86 00:16:19.050 --> 00:16:31.050 Mary Lomax-Ghirarduzzi (she/her): These issues constraints and opportunities and challenges around, who has access to abortion and and by giving it a name abortion privilege and then putting it. 87 00:16:31.350 --> 00:16:39.150 Mary Lomax-Ghirarduzzi (she/her): Putting a framework around that that was you just really helped us be able to understand that these are two different lived realities. 88 00:16:39.480 --> 00:16:56.520 Mary Lomax-Ghirarduzzi (she/her): Can you talk a little bit about what what what I just described and tell us a little bit more about how you came up what is abortion privilege, first of all, and how you how you what led you to even begin to coin that term yourself and begin to create a framework around it. 89 00:16:57.600 --> 00:17:00.870 Ederlina Co: yeah so much of that article. 90 00:17:01.920 --> 00:17:12.360 Ederlina Co: stems from years decades now of reading about and studying and working in the abortion rights context and. 91 00:17:13.500 --> 00:17:28.140 Ederlina Co: My overall observation that we as a society don't talk about abortion, the way that it happens in practice and that we as a society because of the politics around the issue. 92 00:17:29.700 --> 00:17:43.860 Ederlina Co: We have these very absolute points of view right, you have the pro life side that does not want any abortion to be taking place, and you have the pro choice side that is more of the you know every everyone can make the decision for themselves, and there should be no interference and. 93 00:17:44.880 --> 00:17:46.440 Ederlina Co: I really started thinking about. 94 00:17:47.340 --> 00:17:52.500 Ederlina Co: How can we have a more productive dialogue around this particular topic. 95 00:17:52.740 --> 00:18:03.690 Ederlina Co: Because it feels intractable it feels incredibly unproductive like we're getting nowhere, and I think the last couple of weeks of just sort of confirm that right we're just we feel sort of stuck. 96 00:18:04.110 --> 00:18:10.680 Ederlina Co: And when other countries seem to be moving on like they're they're not stuck in these politics, and there are a number of reasons for that, but. 97 00:18:11.460 --> 00:18:17.970 Ederlina Co: I really wanted to offer another way or another dimension to thinking about this particular issue. 98 00:18:18.450 --> 00:18:26.970 Ederlina Co: And one way that I wanted to be thinking about it, is the way that I think about law sort of generally, and that is that we don't think about law. 99 00:18:27.360 --> 00:18:32.550 Ederlina Co: And the way that it affects our day to day lives we don't think about the fact that you're. 100 00:18:32.880 --> 00:18:46.170 Ederlina Co: sitting in a room right now, and the ceiling hasn't caved in on you and it's because law right we have regulations that say if you're going to be in a building it's going to have to meet certain requirements and certain safety certain safety boundaries. 101 00:18:47.580 --> 00:19:01.140 Ederlina Co: And that's sort of the way I started thinking about abortion is this why don't we think about it in different ways, aside from these two polar opposite viewpoints and one way I started thinking about this was the fact that there are people. 102 00:19:02.460 --> 00:19:10.260 Ederlina Co: it's a smaller group, but there are people who do rely on abortion care and it's it looks like health care, it doesn't look the way that. 103 00:19:10.710 --> 00:19:18.270 Ederlina Co: We think about abortion and I opened the article maybe this will help make it more concrete I opened the article by talking about two different women. 104 00:19:18.900 --> 00:19:28.500 Ederlina Co: who have an abortion, and so the first woman is a woman named malia and she had recently immigrated into Texas she wasn't she found out that she. 105 00:19:28.920 --> 00:19:34.380 Ederlina Co: was experiencing an unintended pregnancy, she wanted to have an abortion, she wasn't ready to have a child, yet. 106 00:19:35.190 --> 00:19:46.440 Ederlina Co: But she went to a crisis pregnancy Center where they misled her to believe that she could not get a medication abortion in the State of Texas, and so she relied on her friends and family. 107 00:19:46.920 --> 00:19:58.710 Ederlina Co: for funding she flew to Colorado springs, and she had the abortion there and what she tells her story is that trying to navigate Texas law and trying to navigate. 108 00:19:59.370 --> 00:20:03.990 Ederlina Co: access to abortion in Texas was just impossible it felt like for her. 109 00:20:04.710 --> 00:20:11.940 Ederlina Co: And I Contrast that with another woman named mallory who was in Ohio she was married at the time that she wanted to have her abortion. 110 00:20:12.300 --> 00:20:22.140 Ederlina Co: She had health insurance that paid for it in its entirety, she was within 20 minutes of an abortion facility that she describes as one of the best in the country. 111 00:20:22.980 --> 00:20:35.220 Ederlina Co: And, and that was her experience it was more of a form of healthcare, and so I thought we don't really hear so much about mallory's experience and why is that. 112 00:20:36.240 --> 00:20:44.430 Ederlina Co: And, and one of the books that has been, and I recommend everybody read a book by katie Watson it's called the scarlet a. 113 00:20:44.910 --> 00:20:51.270 Ederlina Co: And she talks about the way that abortion in this country has become very common and it has become ordinary. 114 00:20:51.690 --> 00:20:58.890 Ederlina Co: in the sense that one in four women will have an abortion during their lifetime, I mean we don't realize that we don't talk about that. 115 00:20:59.400 --> 00:21:09.840 Ederlina Co: because the issue is so politicized and so stigmatized that one way, I wanted to highlight the fact that one in four women to have an abortion is to talk about. 116 00:21:10.320 --> 00:21:13.410 Ederlina Co: The women that we don't talk about which is women who have privilege. 117 00:21:14.400 --> 00:21:22.620 Ederlina Co: So in thinking about abortion privilege, I thought, well, what does privilege look like in this particular context, and I was sort of borrowing from. 118 00:21:22.950 --> 00:21:29.640 Ederlina Co: The discussions of privilege when it comes to racial privilege or when it comes to white privilege or when it comes to male privilege. 119 00:21:30.060 --> 00:21:40.980 Ederlina Co: And so, in thinking about abortion privilege, in this context, what does it mean to have privilege Well, first and foremost, having the funds for abortion care is part of the privilege. 120 00:21:41.370 --> 00:21:52.350 Ederlina Co: of having access to abortion care facilities as part of the privilege having or living in a state where abortion is not restricted that's part of the privilege. 121 00:21:52.770 --> 00:22:06.510 Ederlina Co: living in a region where abortion is not heavily stigmatized that is part of the privilege being white or Caucasian and not having to elect health care in connection with. 122 00:22:07.020 --> 00:22:19.650 Ederlina Co: or because of profoundly constraints social conditions that's part of the privilege and even being able to choose pregnancy and healthy childbirth, that is also part of the privilege. 123 00:22:19.950 --> 00:22:30.720 Ederlina Co: And that's to say that all of these factors influence, whether or not someone experiences abortion as a form of health care or as a form of oppression. 124 00:22:31.200 --> 00:22:38.670 Ederlina Co: And you're going to see, I think you know, one of the things that I discussed in my article and again this came out before dobbs. 125 00:22:39.480 --> 00:22:47.520 Ederlina Co: But when abortion is legal, it can mask privilege because there's a certain presumption of access to it because it is legal. 126 00:22:47.790 --> 00:22:56.100 Ederlina Co: Now that it is going to be illegal in a number of states, as you already see happening that privilege is going to be exacerbated right, you will have. 127 00:22:56.970 --> 00:23:03.750 Ederlina Co: People who are in states that have access to it and you will have people in States who do not and are going to be forced to. 128 00:23:04.680 --> 00:23:13.950 Ederlina Co: You know experience abortion, much like malia did in the first scenario where there will, there will, there will be a lot of travel that's involved a lot of planning that's going to be involved. 129 00:23:14.640 --> 00:23:29.670 Ederlina Co: Whereas, you know, two weeks ago, that was not that was less so the case, but even even in the context of when even before dobbs that privilege still existed even though law, even though you did have the constitutional right at that point. 130 00:23:30.750 --> 00:23:33.300 Mary Lomax-Ghirarduzzi (she/her): You know it's such an important. 131 00:23:34.980 --> 00:23:36.060 Mary Lomax-Ghirarduzzi (she/her): uncovering. 132 00:23:37.110 --> 00:23:38.130 Mary Lomax-Ghirarduzzi (she/her): The term of. 133 00:23:40.080 --> 00:23:51.300 Mary Lomax-Ghirarduzzi (she/her): Abortion privilege and the way that you described through the stories of these two women in your article at the beginning, you even as a. 134 00:23:52.620 --> 00:23:59.550 Mary Lomax-Ghirarduzzi (she/her): Legal scholar and writer you use the narrative the purse the power of the personal narrative to. 135 00:24:01.230 --> 00:24:08.580 Mary Lomax-Ghirarduzzi (she/her): visualize and help us understand how the privilege really is has been part, even before the dots decision. 136 00:24:09.630 --> 00:24:21.150 Mary Lomax-Ghirarduzzi (she/her): And this, the ways of the intersecting of how that privilege plays out all race and gender class definitely but then you're going to be dealing with issues of gender identity. 137 00:24:23.310 --> 00:24:34.500 Mary Lomax-Ghirarduzzi (she/her): there's going to be issues of originality and all of that will really play itself out kind of like what ended up with the with the pandemic, we learned a lot more about. 138 00:24:36.000 --> 00:24:37.230 Mary Lomax-Ghirarduzzi (she/her): Health inequities. 139 00:24:39.420 --> 00:24:44.340 Mary Lomax-Ghirarduzzi (she/her): and other economic injustice and equities because of the pandemic it just basically. 140 00:24:45.390 --> 00:24:55.020 Mary Lomax-Ghirarduzzi (she/her): exemplified the things that were already in place, and so the same is expected to happen as the removal of of. 141 00:24:57.990 --> 00:25:02.460 Mary Lomax-Ghirarduzzi (she/her): federal protections for abortion rights is already beginning and it will continue. 142 00:25:04.230 --> 00:25:17.400 Mary Lomax-Ghirarduzzi (she/her): What i'd like to do with you now, because I think it would be helpful in this session, just to be able to talk a little bit about the the dobbs decision and to hear from you, Professor co can you just. 143 00:25:18.420 --> 00:25:24.690 Mary Lomax-Ghirarduzzi (she/her): talk to us about what happened on Friday June 24, we know that the US Supreme Court overturned. 144 00:25:25.170 --> 00:25:39.600 Mary Lomax-Ghirarduzzi (she/her): overturned the landmark civil rights legislation, also known as roe V Wade which which in there and that decision on the 24th of June of this year eliminated federal protection for abortion rights. 145 00:25:40.410 --> 00:25:49.500 Mary Lomax-Ghirarduzzi (she/her): Can you just take a little bit of time just to unpack what that decision was about and what is the, what are the actual consequences of the. 146 00:25:50.580 --> 00:25:52.290 Mary Lomax-Ghirarduzzi (she/her): decision made on June 24. 147 00:25:52.950 --> 00:26:02.760 Ederlina Co: Sure, so let's why don't we start with row right let's start 50 years ago, in a nutshell, and work our way up to present day, and in a nutshell. 148 00:26:03.540 --> 00:26:20.040 Ederlina Co: So in 1973 the Supreme Court decided roe vs Wade roe vs Wade dealt with a Texas law that band abortion, with very limited exceptions and what the Court said in row was the right to privacy. 149 00:26:20.580 --> 00:26:34.740 Ederlina Co: Which is found in a liberty clause of the 14th amendment that right to privacy is broad enough to encompass a woman or a pregnant person's decision whether or not to terminate a pregnancy, at least before viability. 150 00:26:36.870 --> 00:26:40.890 Ederlina Co: By ability, marking the point where the fetus could live outside the womb. 151 00:26:41.490 --> 00:26:51.210 Ederlina Co: And so, in making that decision, the first thing the Court had to do was decide well how do we treat the unborn for legal purposes under the Constitution. 152 00:26:51.600 --> 00:27:03.810 Ederlina Co: And what the Court said was well when we look at the Constitution, every time the Constitution refers to a person it's referring to a person post natively or someone who has been born. 153 00:27:04.230 --> 00:27:16.230 Ederlina Co: And so, for constitutional purposes, we can't or or the Court was not willing to treat the unborn as being a person for purposes of life, liberty pursuit of happiness, etc. 154 00:27:17.520 --> 00:27:32.880 Ederlina Co: And the Court said look when when you have people who are in medicine and philosophy and theology when they're unable to come up with a consensus on when life begins, we, as the judiciary certainly cannot come out. 155 00:27:33.570 --> 00:27:41.280 Ederlina Co: to a conclusion, and so the State then struck the balance and said Okay, there are certain times when the state can restrict abortion. 156 00:27:41.520 --> 00:27:48.360 Ederlina Co: Starting after the second trimester and then certainly at viability that's when the Court said, the states could ban abortion. 157 00:27:48.690 --> 00:27:56.280 Ederlina Co: But up until that point, you know, in the first trimester it really was the decision that was between the physician and the individual. 158 00:27:57.180 --> 00:28:08.610 Ederlina Co: 20 years later, we got planned parenthood versus Casey and at that point, a lot of people thought this is this court is going to overturn roe vs Wade it didn't. 159 00:28:09.090 --> 00:28:21.090 Ederlina Co: Instead, the Court decided to reaffirm row and said yes, that women pregnant people now also you know, we have the right to decide whether or not to have an abortion before viability. 160 00:28:21.750 --> 00:28:26.940 Ederlina Co: Okay, so that brings us up to present day, then so 30 years later, here we are. 161 00:28:27.840 --> 00:28:42.540 Ederlina Co: And the state of Mississippi banned abortion at 15 weeks and part of the what Mississippi was trying to do was feed a case up to the Supreme Court, to see if the Supreme Court would overturn roe. 162 00:28:43.140 --> 00:28:54.690 Ederlina Co: 15 weeks is indisputably before viability everybody knew that, but it was an opportunity for Mississippi to make the argument that the Court should overturn roe vs Wade. 163 00:28:55.500 --> 00:29:11.010 Ederlina Co: For a number of different reasons, and so, when dobbs reached the Supreme Court that's exactly what the Supreme Court did, there was a new makeup of the Supreme Court, and what the Supreme Court decided was that Mississippi law is constitutional. 164 00:29:12.450 --> 00:29:25.800 Ederlina Co: And the way that the Court got there was to say look we don't think that the liberty clause, where the right to privacy, protects the right to decide whether or not to obtain an abortion. 165 00:29:26.370 --> 00:29:35.640 Ederlina Co: And the way that the Court got there was really to see well, if you look at history and when the 14th amendment was ratified. 166 00:29:36.450 --> 00:29:47.700 Ederlina Co: was their protection for the right to abortion and this court concluded no there was not, and therefore there was no right to abortion in the Constitution roe vs Wade was wrongly decided. 167 00:29:48.450 --> 00:29:58.020 Ederlina Co: Planned parenthood versus Casey was also wrongly decided and therefore we're going to uphold the Mississippi statute and we're going to return this issue. 168 00:29:58.380 --> 00:30:05.220 Ederlina Co: back to the people and the political process and each of the individual States them will decide whether or not. 169 00:30:05.640 --> 00:30:13.680 Ederlina Co: abortion is legal within their boundaries and so that can be either the State governments or it can be the Federal Government that gets to decide, but ultimately. 170 00:30:14.190 --> 00:30:22.050 Ederlina Co: The constitutional protection is now gone and you know I should say that there was a very strong descent. 171 00:30:22.650 --> 00:30:33.240 Ederlina Co: With three of the justices dissenting from the opinion reading the Constitution in a very different way, saying that the Constitution is essentially not frozen in time. 172 00:30:33.570 --> 00:30:43.260 Ederlina Co: Right, instead of looking at what was a right that was recognized in the 1800s we should be looking at the Constitution present day that. 173 00:30:43.980 --> 00:30:56.370 Ederlina Co: The Court has not frozen the Constitution in time related to any other constitutional rights and that the Court should be reading these constitutional principles related to liberty and equality. 174 00:30:57.420 --> 00:31:03.690 Ederlina Co: In a more pragmatic and in a more dynamic fashion, if the Constitution is going to endure for the ages. 175 00:31:04.020 --> 00:31:10.800 Ederlina Co: and, obviously, they did not have the boats, and so this has gone back to the States and what you've seen in the news is. 176 00:31:11.040 --> 00:31:17.490 Ederlina Co: Individual States deciding whether or not to ban abortion, so you have a number of states in the south, that have already bound abortion. 177 00:31:17.790 --> 00:31:27.540 Ederlina Co: You have a number of states that are now litigating the issue, because some of them have what are called zombie laws so Texas had a an early 1900s law. 178 00:31:28.320 --> 00:31:34.710 Ederlina Co: That it's like to try and enforce and the Texas Supreme Court recently said yes, even though that's a very old law. 179 00:31:35.400 --> 00:31:44.670 Ederlina Co: we're going to go ahead and allow you to to enforce it, you have trigger laws that were triggered when the Supreme Court decided to overturn roe vs Wade. 180 00:31:45.360 --> 00:31:50.700 Ederlina Co: Those are also being litigated in terms of you know, do they apply have they gone into effect. 181 00:31:51.210 --> 00:32:00.570 Ederlina Co: On but what you're going to see is a real patchwork of access to abortion care in this country you'll have states like California New York Connecticut New Jersey Illinois. 182 00:32:00.930 --> 00:32:08.790 Ederlina Co: they're likely to keep abortion, legal and accessible and then you'll have states, primarily in the south and the Midwest that ban abortion. 183 00:32:09.690 --> 00:32:26.910 Ederlina Co: And then we're California is concerned California has state constitutional protection for abortion, we also have a statute, called the reproductive Privacy Act that also protects the right to abortion in the state and then, finally, the legislature this. 184 00:32:28.050 --> 00:32:37.680 Ederlina Co: This year, passed a constitutional amendment that you all will see on the ballot this November that you can affirm and we would. 185 00:32:38.160 --> 00:32:54.900 Ederlina Co: It would create a constitutional amendment that protects the right to decide whether or not to have an abortion and protects the right to choose or refuse contraception so both of those issues are covered by the amendment that will be proposition one in November. 186 00:32:57.330 --> 00:33:10.410 Mary Lomax-Ghirarduzzi (she/her): So much there with it with a dive in and I appreciate it your response, which is so comprehensive, to help us understand that dobbs in eliminating the federal protections. 187 00:33:11.280 --> 00:33:14.970 Mary Lomax-Ghirarduzzi (she/her): For abortion rights has has has put out. 188 00:33:15.690 --> 00:33:19.020 Mary Lomax-Ghirarduzzi (she/her): The what is happening now, or is that there's a number of states that have. 189 00:33:19.230 --> 00:33:30.450 Mary Lomax-Ghirarduzzi (she/her): already banned abortions there's a number of states that are going through their own litigating litigations and then you're going to have some states that have these constitutional protections, such as the state of California and, as you said, there's. 190 00:33:30.870 --> 00:33:35.790 Mary Lomax-Ghirarduzzi (she/her): there's amendment that's coming forth this this fall and our next voting season. 191 00:33:37.260 --> 00:33:38.940 Mary Lomax-Ghirarduzzi (she/her): California context. 192 00:33:40.140 --> 00:33:46.860 Mary Lomax-Ghirarduzzi (she/her): University of the Pacific operates and cal state of California and San Francisco in sacramento as well as in Stockton. 193 00:33:50.070 --> 00:33:54.600 Mary Lomax-Ghirarduzzi (she/her): I had a conversation with a reproductive justice access advocate. 194 00:33:56.550 --> 00:34:01.080 Mary Lomax-Ghirarduzzi (she/her): A young professional that as what I would say boots on the ground. 195 00:34:02.220 --> 00:34:16.830 Mary Lomax-Ghirarduzzi (she/her): Is has a whole network connected to other networks of how what you described earlier Professor co of how they are going to receive other people from other states how they are going to house those people. 196 00:34:17.580 --> 00:34:24.060 Mary Lomax-Ghirarduzzi (she/her): The funding sources for all of that plane tickets on no card carpooled all of that. 197 00:34:26.040 --> 00:34:29.580 Mary Lomax-Ghirarduzzi (she/her): The cost of the of the of the. 198 00:34:30.150 --> 00:34:46.050 Mary Lomax-Ghirarduzzi (she/her): work that they miss sometimes they have child care needs, I mean it's a lot going on there and they're even considering how the digital footprint, that is left behind, because you know, they do not want to have a digital footprint that could be then used against. 199 00:34:47.370 --> 00:34:56.760 Mary Lomax-Ghirarduzzi (she/her): The the patient herself for anyone that's helping them so there's just a lot that that that in this advocacy group. 200 00:34:57.150 --> 00:35:15.390 Mary Lomax-Ghirarduzzi (she/her): A young professional that's working in an advocacy group I think is based down in southern California, they are really working through a lot of pieces right now, so I like to move our conversation a bit too, you know we are living in the immediate weeks days, weeks, months. 201 00:35:16.800 --> 00:35:19.350 Mary Lomax-Ghirarduzzi (she/her): Post the dogs decision. 202 00:35:21.330 --> 00:35:25.500 Mary Lomax-Ghirarduzzi (she/her): talk to me about how this is impacting you. 203 00:35:27.060 --> 00:35:42.000 Mary Lomax-Ghirarduzzi (she/her): As a professor as a as a woman as a someone that has studied and has given your your life, from a legal perspective around understanding these issues of reproductive rights and justice in a very deep. 204 00:35:43.140 --> 00:35:51.960 Mary Lomax-Ghirarduzzi (she/her): And both cognitive, as well as a practical sense just talk about even emotionally how this is impacting you how you're kind of managing this. 205 00:35:53.850 --> 00:35:54.390 Mary Lomax-Ghirarduzzi (she/her): and 206 00:35:55.500 --> 00:36:04.950 Mary Lomax-Ghirarduzzi (she/her): And also, knowing that there's individuals who are coming into state working with like a young professional that I just described, told me what she's working through right now. 207 00:36:05.250 --> 00:36:16.080 Mary Lomax-Ghirarduzzi (she/her): And just knowing what what what those advocates are trying to do right now and helping people from other states, these other states that you talked about coming to places like like California. 208 00:36:17.400 --> 00:36:19.350 Ederlina Co: Right um okay. 209 00:36:20.550 --> 00:36:21.150 Ederlina Co: that's a lot. 210 00:36:22.200 --> 00:36:31.080 Ederlina Co: You know i'll just say it is, it is a double edged sword, to be a scholar in this area, on the one hand. 211 00:36:32.280 --> 00:36:41.520 Ederlina Co: You know I I I focus on the this area because i'm passionate about it, it is what drew me to law school, I was singularly focused. 212 00:36:41.910 --> 00:36:48.450 Ederlina Co: on working on reproductive rights when I decided to go to law school and so to have worked in this area. 213 00:36:49.260 --> 00:37:00.840 Ederlina Co: You know, as an activist as a clinic escort as an attorney and now as a professor and to see it all get unraveled in one decision pretty much was was. 214 00:37:01.500 --> 00:37:13.410 Ederlina Co: A big blow right on the other hand, I will say having studied in this area for as long as I have, I also know that this is not the end of anything. 215 00:37:13.770 --> 00:37:25.560 Ederlina Co: Related to this issue, and I think you see that now, in terms of this new generation and new ideas coming out onto the table related to the issue and that's to say, as I told my students. 216 00:37:26.070 --> 00:37:34.410 Ederlina Co: When this when the leak came out the pendulum is going to continue to swing on this issue and, and so I have that. 217 00:37:35.010 --> 00:37:42.900 Ederlina Co: Understanding because it always has right, I mean when you go back to the 18th 19th centuries, you know abortion was not. 218 00:37:43.200 --> 00:37:54.030 Ederlina Co: legally or morally problematic before quickening or before a woman or pregnant person could actually feel the fetus moving and then it became criminalized. 219 00:37:54.600 --> 00:38:01.110 Ederlina Co: By statutes by states, and then it became a constitutional right because the Court decided roe vs Wade. 220 00:38:01.410 --> 00:38:08.850 Ederlina Co: But then it became heavily restricted after roe vs Wade by the individual states, now the constitutional right has been overturned so. 221 00:38:09.210 --> 00:38:19.620 Ederlina Co: Having that having the benefit of that knowledge, I know that the pendulum is going to continue to swing you know and it's hard to predict exactly where it's going to go next, except that. 222 00:38:20.460 --> 00:38:29.490 Ederlina Co: We actually do have a role in this, I think people think of abortion and they automatically think of the Supreme Court because of roe vs Wade but. 223 00:38:30.030 --> 00:38:39.810 Ederlina Co: The Supreme Court has not been the only lever in this with respect to this particular issue right oftentimes it has been a state matter whether or not a state. 224 00:38:40.170 --> 00:38:53.370 Ederlina Co: restricts abortion can really influence how someone experiences that on the ground and so for many states let's take you know North Dakota South Dakota with one abortion provider in the entire state. 225 00:38:53.970 --> 00:39:03.720 Ederlina Co: roe vs Wade is not even being overturned it's not necessarily going to change the experience dramatically for the individuals in that state who were already traveling to Minnesota in any case. 226 00:39:04.830 --> 00:39:20.970 Ederlina Co: And so having that depth of understanding is useful in terms of my being able to think productively and hopefully my ability to share with others to think productively about the issue and i'm not going to say or pretend that that that decision coming out. 227 00:39:21.450 --> 00:39:34.710 Ederlina Co: Was not incredibly traumatic for I think a lot of people who thought that this constitutional right was something that they could rely on something that their daughters would be able to rely on their sisters their neighbors friends, etc. 228 00:39:36.450 --> 00:39:48.030 Ederlina Co: One of the things that is most striking about this decision is it's the first that the Supreme Court has declared a constitutional right and then taking it away that that just hasn't happened. 229 00:39:49.530 --> 00:40:00.870 Ederlina Co: And so, in that sense, I can appreciate, and I think everybody appreciates the heaviness of just knowing that that was the case, and then of course there's the uncertainty that comes with it. 230 00:40:01.380 --> 00:40:13.800 Ederlina Co: Even in California, you know I mentioned, we have a State constitutional protection, we have a State statute that protects we're going to have another constitutional amendment that protects the right that's very likely to pass in November. 231 00:40:14.190 --> 00:40:21.780 Ederlina Co: But that doesn't mean that California is necessarily insulated from this either right now that this is no longer a constitutional right. 232 00:40:22.140 --> 00:40:27.690 Ederlina Co: Congress and the President could also pass a law that bans abortion nationwide. 233 00:40:28.020 --> 00:40:33.510 Ederlina Co: Right, this is one of the most this was one of the things that the dissent had identified as most threatening is. 234 00:40:33.780 --> 00:40:44.550 Ederlina Co: Well it's not necessarily up to individual states if Congress and the President decided to ban abortion nationwide they could that could be you know the next. 235 00:40:45.180 --> 00:40:52.320 Ederlina Co: Chapter where this issue is concerned, on the other side right Congress and the President could decide, we think. 236 00:40:52.710 --> 00:41:02.730 Ederlina Co: Abortion should be available nationwide we're going to pass the women's Health Protection Act, which would codify row and would create federal law, saying that abortion should be available and so. 237 00:41:03.660 --> 00:41:19.950 Ederlina Co: When they said they were returning this issue to the people they really are returning it to the people in the sense that you now have greater control at the ballot box in terms of how you think this issue should be decided, both at a State level, as well as at the federal level. 238 00:41:21.180 --> 00:41:30.120 Mary Lomax-Ghirarduzzi (she/her): You know what you're doing Professor co is that you're helping us understand that even the Supreme Court. 239 00:41:31.560 --> 00:41:41.280 Mary Lomax-Ghirarduzzi (she/her): In many ways, perhaps cannot continue or was not able to or in this case chose not to be continue to. 240 00:41:42.300 --> 00:41:51.060 Mary Lomax-Ghirarduzzi (she/her): make these decisions i'm not saying that they're not qualified to make these decisions, but in many ways, these are issues social societal issues that. 241 00:41:52.290 --> 00:42:03.330 Mary Lomax-Ghirarduzzi (she/her): That were constitutional rights at one point, and now we're seeing for the first time ever in in the roe V Wade and dobbs decision this constitutional right is is pulled back. 242 00:42:04.740 --> 00:42:15.390 Mary Lomax-Ghirarduzzi (she/her): And now we're going to have our hopefulness must be in our ability to gain more knowledge and garner the. 243 00:42:16.800 --> 00:42:22.740 Mary Lomax-Ghirarduzzi (she/her): power that we have, which is always been through our expressions of learning and voting. 244 00:42:23.340 --> 00:42:37.350 Mary Lomax-Ghirarduzzi (she/her): Understanding the issues and then exercising our not our right to vote only, but our duty to vote, because the right is only as good as you extend and and and and and use it for the common good. 245 00:42:37.890 --> 00:42:45.090 Mary Lomax-Ghirarduzzi (she/her): So I really appreciate so much how much education you're providing us even in the context of this loss. 246 00:42:45.450 --> 00:42:53.670 Mary Lomax-Ghirarduzzi (she/her): Now, because i'm an equity leader, and I think about these things, all the time, and I know you think about these things, all the time, I always you know. 247 00:42:54.330 --> 00:43:06.660 Mary Lomax-Ghirarduzzi (she/her): We connect the dots and we have to look at things from the intersection of lens all the time i'm quite concerned, Professor co that because of the historic nature of this. 248 00:43:07.260 --> 00:43:18.900 Mary Lomax-Ghirarduzzi (she/her): pulling back of a constitutional right we've never seen it before So the first time in our history in our lives, we were just used to gain you know right, then all of a sudden, here we are, that one has been taken away. 249 00:43:19.440 --> 00:43:23.100 Mary Lomax-Ghirarduzzi (she/her): So that has caused alarm Professor co around. 250 00:43:23.520 --> 00:43:36.000 Mary Lomax-Ghirarduzzi (she/her): Does that open the door for other constitutionally protected rights to be taken away and, obviously, the one that we're thinking of and i'm thinking of and those of us that have been on the equity forefront. 251 00:43:36.660 --> 00:43:49.620 Mary Lomax-Ghirarduzzi (she/her): i've been doing this work for 30 years is the anti LGBT Q legislation that's happening state by state all across the United States, and we know that the state of California out of the office of the governor. 252 00:43:51.060 --> 00:44:01.440 Mary Lomax-Ghirarduzzi (she/her): has restricted, you know, the state of California is not doing business with these various you know States because of the anti trans anti LGBT Q. 253 00:44:03.930 --> 00:44:19.590 Mary Lomax-Ghirarduzzi (she/her): laws that they are happening on a State level, are there any concerns or what are your thoughts in regard to this this this this notion that if you take away one constitutional right under this current court makeup that it could happen with another constitutional right. 254 00:44:20.190 --> 00:44:32.070 Ederlina Co: Right and i'm sure you know some of you have probably seen the alarm that has been sounded because when you talk about where abortion was protected in the constitution. 255 00:44:32.460 --> 00:44:44.850 Ederlina Co: it's in the liberty clause or which was over the right to privacy, which is found in the liberty clause of the 14th amendment, so the 14th amendment says, nor shall any State deprive a person of life, liberty. 256 00:44:45.300 --> 00:44:55.380 Ederlina Co: etc, and so it's that liberty clause, what does liberty mean that the Court is focused on now for decades that liberty clause has been interpreted. 257 00:44:55.770 --> 00:45:02.970 Ederlina Co: To include a right to privacy and that right to privacy has included your right to contraception you're right to abortion. 258 00:45:03.240 --> 00:45:10.410 Ederlina Co: you're right to same sex marriage you're right to same sex intimacy your right to certain child rearing decisions. 259 00:45:10.770 --> 00:45:20.970 Ederlina Co: And so there's this entire realm of personal life that we think of as part of the liberty claws and so because the Supreme Court. 260 00:45:21.420 --> 00:45:36.390 Ederlina Co: decided to write out the right to abortion, it raises the question of all of those other constitutional rights that are not specifically written in the Constitution, but over time, have been interpreted to be protected by it. 261 00:45:36.960 --> 00:45:46.200 Ederlina Co: And so, when you consider that there's this entire fabric of law that is built under this liberty clause if one goes, does that mean the rest of them go. 262 00:45:46.890 --> 00:45:55.860 Ederlina Co: Well, what the Court said and dobbs was just because we are overturning roe vs Wade it doesn't mean that this decision should be read. 263 00:45:56.250 --> 00:46:06.900 Ederlina Co: As a signal that we're going to overturn all of these other constitutional rights what the Court said was that abortion is uniquely situated because it involves. 264 00:46:07.500 --> 00:46:11.280 Ederlina Co: Potential life, it involves this critical moral question. 265 00:46:11.970 --> 00:46:24.180 Ederlina Co: of abortion now that's not a legal principle right that's not a that's not a legal rule and so where the concern comes about all of the other constitutional rights is that. 266 00:46:24.540 --> 00:46:35.430 Ederlina Co: The reason the Court decided to overturn roe was because it said listen when the 14th amendment was ratified, there was no right to an abortion. 267 00:46:35.730 --> 00:46:42.480 Ederlina Co: Well, you could easily take that same rule or test and say, well, when the 14th amendment was ratified, there was no right. 268 00:46:42.750 --> 00:46:49.440 Ederlina Co: To same sex marriage, there was no right to contraception, these are things that the state should decide as well. 269 00:46:49.770 --> 00:47:04.500 Ederlina Co: And so, when you're looking at this it's hard to trust the majority's reasoning that Oh, this is only about abortion, because the test or the legal principles that it uses could be easily applied to other constitutional rights. 270 00:47:04.710 --> 00:47:16.350 Ederlina Co: That are also unincorporated like same sex marriage now I think in the legal Academy, there is a split in terms of what people are thinking about some people take the Court at its word. 271 00:47:16.650 --> 00:47:28.950 Ederlina Co: and think there's no way that this court is going to wade into the waters of same sex marriage and things that are incredibly popular in our society, right now, the Court would lose all of its legitimacy. 272 00:47:29.550 --> 00:47:33.900 Ederlina Co: And then there's the other camp that says no they're absolutely coming for everything. 273 00:47:34.320 --> 00:47:46.620 Ederlina Co: right that that this was you know the justices that have been put on to the Supreme Court have been put on to the Supreme Court, with a particular judicial philosophy in mind and that's originalism. 274 00:47:47.010 --> 00:47:58.770 Ederlina Co: And so that's going to bring us back to well were these rights protected when the 14th amendment was ratified, and we know that they were not and so it's sort of an unknown question about. 275 00:47:59.340 --> 00:48:03.660 Ederlina Co: What is going to happen in the future, and also when you think about. 276 00:48:04.470 --> 00:48:15.240 Ederlina Co: Lawrence are the same sex marriage cases, you know the the judges that were dissenting in that cases where the same ones that were in the majority, so, and there has been some there have been some shifts in the Court too so. 277 00:48:16.170 --> 00:48:26.580 Ederlina Co: it's unknown at this point I don't I think you know it's hard for me to make a prediction to, but I would just say this is. 278 00:48:27.660 --> 00:48:35.670 Ederlina Co: This decision should make it clear to everyone that your constitutional rights are rights that you should not take for granted. 279 00:48:36.270 --> 00:48:47.010 Ederlina Co: And that you should be actively involved and engaged on the issues that you care most about not only because for constitutional reasons, but also because, even if you don't. 280 00:48:47.430 --> 00:48:53.790 Ederlina Co: Even if you do maintain a constitutional right that doesn't mean it won't be restricted or carved away or hollowed out. 281 00:48:54.450 --> 00:49:07.140 Ederlina Co: by various States trying to you know assert their disagreement or seeing the dobbs decision as hey this was a signal for us to go ahead and send up all of these other issues and see if we can get a different decision. 282 00:49:08.310 --> 00:49:13.560 Ederlina Co: But only time will tell what's going to happen with other constitutional rights that are on enumerated. 283 00:49:14.550 --> 00:49:28.590 Mary Lomax-Ghirarduzzi (she/her): You know the such a brilliant conversation, you know what you said about how one's constitutional rights should never be taken for granted, you know my mother would say things like that she says people that gives you things, even if it is in legal. 284 00:49:29.370 --> 00:49:36.570 Mary Lomax-Ghirarduzzi (she/her): legal context, be taken away, I never understood what she was saying, because you know we're like oh things can't be taken away because you never. 285 00:49:36.870 --> 00:49:47.940 Mary Lomax-Ghirarduzzi (she/her): expect the environment, but we have seen that happen have Professor co with the voting rights act is that over time has continued to be carved away hollowed out. 286 00:49:48.870 --> 00:49:51.090 Mary Lomax-Ghirarduzzi (she/her): Where you see less and less individuals. 287 00:49:51.810 --> 00:50:03.000 Mary Lomax-Ghirarduzzi (she/her): Who those voting rights were made for so that those that were most marginalized in society can have access to it we've seen all these voter restriction laws, but states have provided. 288 00:50:03.210 --> 00:50:12.390 Mary Lomax-Ghirarduzzi (she/her): That actually have even though technically the voting rights act is still in play there's many ways that that has been hollowed out and there's a lot of people that even though that. 289 00:50:12.900 --> 00:50:29.250 Mary Lomax-Ghirarduzzi (she/her): that's a different area it, I think it also is shows that these rights can be taken in specifically you said constitutional rights should never be taken for granted, what i'd like to do now is that I see that we're getting close to the end of the hour, and I want to check in with. 290 00:50:30.420 --> 00:50:42.630 Mary Lomax-Ghirarduzzi (she/her): Professor wells to see, is there any questions that people have an s she's preparing that I just want you to be thinking about you know I always feel that we have to and you've already mentioned that. 291 00:50:43.770 --> 00:50:54.390 Mary Lomax-Ghirarduzzi (she/her): That the benefit of your knowledge helps you be able to see that there's a lot more in this landscape that that we should be paid that there's a lot more that can be had that. 292 00:50:54.750 --> 00:51:01.410 Mary Lomax-Ghirarduzzi (she/her): It isn't the end of times it is as it relates, even though we are in difficult days and we may have difficult days ahead. 293 00:51:02.670 --> 00:51:12.900 Mary Lomax-Ghirarduzzi (she/her): Maybe Maybe you can begin to the transition of helping us to think about what should we do now, and I see that there's a question there go ahead Veronica. 294 00:51:14.490 --> 00:51:23.580 Veronica Wells (she/her): And there was a question about what do you think are the best ways we can use our privilege, as people who live in a state with abortion access to help. 295 00:51:24.570 --> 00:51:33.210 Ederlina Co: Right, I think that's a great question and I think this goes to you know when I think about the things that i'm doing, but then in this moment. 296 00:51:34.560 --> 00:51:42.720 Ederlina Co: So I think for students, it can be challenging but it but but well, I think, for everybody in this moment. 297 00:51:43.260 --> 00:51:50.610 Ederlina Co: We want to do something grand right, but for people who support abortion rights, I should say you want to do something grand there's been this huge shift. 298 00:51:51.480 --> 00:51:56.550 Ederlina Co: All of a sudden, and you want to solve the problem or you're like what can I do to fix this. 299 00:51:56.940 --> 00:52:10.380 Ederlina Co: And the problem is there is nothing you can do that's going to revert us back to where we were two weeks ago there's nothing you can do today that's going to make that happen, and so I think you have to think about well, what can you do. 300 00:52:11.430 --> 00:52:19.380 Ederlina Co: First and foremost, if you're concerned about and everybody brings a different approach to the issue, if you are concerned about. 301 00:52:20.010 --> 00:52:35.250 Ederlina Co: Women and pregnant people in other states having access to abortion care right having the funds to travel out of State or to you know neighboring states there there's something called abortion funds which are directly. 302 00:52:36.300 --> 00:52:43.470 Ederlina Co: fundraised for this very purpose there's an organization called the national network of abortion funds that. 303 00:52:43.950 --> 00:52:53.670 Ederlina Co: that's different abortion funds in different states, so that you can donate money directly to them to help the women of that state so, for example, you know, in the south. 304 00:52:54.000 --> 00:52:59.490 Ederlina Co: Texas Louisiana Alabama Mississippi all of those States ban abortion so. 305 00:52:59.940 --> 00:53:06.900 Ederlina Co: Those are going to be individuals that are going to struggle they're going to have to travel if they're going to need that care so you can donate to funds. 306 00:53:07.500 --> 00:53:19.260 Ederlina Co: For those particular states, if you want to if you're somebody who, instead, wants to be involved in an advocacy level, you can donate or volunteer with any of the reproductive rights and justice organizations. 307 00:53:19.860 --> 00:53:21.210 Ederlina Co: What a lot of people don't know. 308 00:53:21.540 --> 00:53:26.160 Ederlina Co: Which is, I think a positive is that there is infrastructure that is in place. 309 00:53:26.340 --> 00:53:37.920 Ederlina Co: Right, there are organizations that since roe have been litigating abortion cases up and down the Federal Court system and in the state court systems right, so the attorneys at the Center for reproductive rights. 310 00:53:38.190 --> 00:53:53.670 Ederlina Co: At planned parenthood at the aclu reproductive freedom project Those are the three main organizations that are litigating and challenging these laws and that are now going on the offensive to try and get state constitutional protection. 311 00:53:54.390 --> 00:54:00.900 Ederlina Co: Of the abortion right So those are organizations that are in place, I would say, you have to get involved. 312 00:54:01.320 --> 00:54:08.370 Ederlina Co: With voting if you're not registered to vote be sure that you are registered to vote, even though you're voting in California. 313 00:54:08.610 --> 00:54:20.970 Ederlina Co: As I mentioned there's going to be a ballot initiative or a constitutional amendment on the ballot proposition, one that would create an explicit constitutional protection in the California constitution. 314 00:54:21.750 --> 00:54:31.500 Ederlina Co: In addition, if you're somebody who likes politics get involved right you don't even have to get involved with California elections, there are a number of senate seats. 315 00:54:32.010 --> 00:54:46.530 Ederlina Co: In the US Senate that are up right the US House of Representatives has passed the women's Health Protection Act, which would cause defy row nationwide the Senate has not been able to pass it, they need two more votes so if you have two more. 316 00:54:47.190 --> 00:54:55.380 Ederlina Co: Democratic pro choice senators they're going to pass that and President Biden will sign it, and that would be the biggest way you know the most. 317 00:54:55.740 --> 00:55:10.050 Ederlina Co: easiest way or the quickest way I should say to reverse what happened two weeks ago, in addition, there are government races right abortion access and abortion rights are largely going to be determined at a State level, if you are not. 318 00:55:12.000 --> 00:55:20.760 Ederlina Co: If you are not in California look at Pennsylvania, they have a big governor race coming up Michigan governor whitmer is up for reelection again. 319 00:55:21.390 --> 00:55:31.320 Ederlina Co: In New Mexico governor grisham is up for reelection and so, whether or not a legislature passes and abortion ban their final stop, of course, is going to be with the governor. 320 00:55:32.340 --> 00:55:34.350 Ederlina Co: And then I would say, you know. 321 00:55:35.370 --> 00:55:40.440 Ederlina Co: for everybody who doesn't study in this area, what you have to know is, you have to be persistent. 322 00:55:41.790 --> 00:55:53.190 Ederlina Co: The midterm elections are going to come up if we don't get two additional votes for the women's Health Protection Act that does not mean you throw your hands up and say, well, never mind right. 323 00:55:53.880 --> 00:56:07.170 Ederlina Co: The the crusade to overturn roe vs Wade has been happening for the last 50 years and when the anti abortion movement got justice souter and justice o'connor and justice Kennedy. 324 00:56:07.440 --> 00:56:14.730 Ederlina Co: They didn't give up when they reaffirmed roe vs Wade and planned parenthood versus Casey they kept voting and they kept being active on the issue. 325 00:56:14.910 --> 00:56:21.990 Ederlina Co: Until ultimately they got the justices that they wanted they got the governor's that they wanted they got the elected officials that they wanted. 326 00:56:22.290 --> 00:56:31.800 Ederlina Co: I think oftentimes it's more challenging on the progressive side because we have this huge tent right, we have all of these issues and we want all of these issues. 327 00:56:32.430 --> 00:56:41.070 Ederlina Co: front and Center and so you have to decide that you're going to be in this for the long haul not because of November, something happened. 328 00:56:41.550 --> 00:56:48.300 Ederlina Co: Like I said at the outset of this, the pendulum is just going to continue to swing back and forth back and forth on this particular issue. 329 00:56:48.690 --> 00:57:07.530 Ederlina Co: And so what direction it swings and with velocity is largely going to be dictated by the way, that people respond to this decision, so I would just tell you to ask yourself, you know what do you want the answer to be when someone asks you what did you do in this moment. 330 00:57:08.880 --> 00:57:23.250 Ederlina Co: What do you want your response to be when your daughter asked you that or when a young person asked you that or when your mother asked you that, because for the first time right there is a generation that is coming up that has less rights than we did. 331 00:57:25.740 --> 00:57:29.010 Mary Lomax-Ghirarduzzi (she/her): that's a profound advisement and. 332 00:57:30.630 --> 00:57:32.370 Mary Lomax-Ghirarduzzi (she/her): Conscious guidance. 333 00:57:33.480 --> 00:57:46.140 Mary Lomax-Ghirarduzzi (she/her): On thinking about what our roles are one of the things that can guide us on what our role is is projecting on what we want our response to be. 334 00:57:46.830 --> 00:57:50.760 Mary Lomax-Ghirarduzzi (she/her): When one is asked, and what did you do. 335 00:57:51.630 --> 00:57:59.460 Mary Lomax-Ghirarduzzi (she/her): Not so much don't tell me about how bad things are how bad things were tell me about what you did you know and that's what young people do. 336 00:57:59.700 --> 00:58:16.050 Mary Lomax-Ghirarduzzi (she/her): We know that children will do that in storytelling, and so one of the things that might guide us is to think about what is our own story and we make our own stories by by walking into our our authentic selves and. 337 00:58:17.070 --> 00:58:22.020 Mary Lomax-Ghirarduzzi (she/her): Thinking about what is it that we have to do, because no one else will do it, but us. 338 00:58:22.410 --> 00:58:36.300 Mary Lomax-Ghirarduzzi (she/her): yeah I yeah just like you just really spoke that that was testimony that was like you know, I was like I was like church where I come from anyways That was really wonderful and we're almost at a time. 339 00:58:37.860 --> 00:58:49.890 Mary Lomax-Ghirarduzzi (she/her): With the one o'clock hour just a moment away, but I just want to just lift you up Professor editor leaner co she is a Pacific in professor of law. 340 00:58:51.180 --> 00:59:01.050 Mary Lomax-Ghirarduzzi (she/her): She you know teaches at the law school she has several courses, including a lorry lorry global lawyering skills one and two. 341 00:59:01.680 --> 00:59:08.340 Mary Lomax-Ghirarduzzi (she/her): But her research has been focused on reproductive rights and justice, she had said that was part of the reason why she even went to law school. 342 00:59:08.640 --> 00:59:25.290 Mary Lomax-Ghirarduzzi (she/her): And are we so fortunate, not to have you but to so glad that your heart and your mind was drawn to this area of scholarship so you can offer this to the world and we're so lucky to have you doing this work from Pacific My hope is that. 343 00:59:25.890 --> 00:59:29.460 Mary Lomax-Ghirarduzzi (she/her): All of you that are here today will use this material. 344 00:59:30.390 --> 00:59:36.780 Mary Lomax-Ghirarduzzi (she/her): The office of diversity, equity and inclusion is capturing and we're going to be working with the library as well. 345 00:59:36.960 --> 00:59:50.760 Mary Lomax-Ghirarduzzi (she/her): To start to create a body of information that is coming through the work that we are are doing in in relationship and collaboration and in production with other people, including a podcast that we're working on right now. 346 00:59:51.060 --> 01:00:01.440 Mary Lomax-Ghirarduzzi (she/her): So these digital learning objects as i'm learning are are are going to be used as as as teaching and learning and hopefully scholarship pieces. 347 01:00:01.740 --> 01:00:08.760 Mary Lomax-Ghirarduzzi (she/her): And you've given us a lot of pieces that a lot of people could use this this in the future, thank you again, Professor Co. 348 01:00:09.240 --> 01:00:26.040 Mary Lomax-Ghirarduzzi (she/her): Thank you to all the Pacific ins that are here now, and those of you that watch this in the future, you want to reach out to Professor co and thank her for her her thought leadership for her teaching and her writing that would be great Thank you all enjoy the rest of your day. 349 01:00:26.220 --> 01:00:38.100 Ederlina Co: Yes, please feel free to reach out to me my email is on the website or it's a ceo@pacific.edu and thank you, Dr lomax for the invitation and thank you to everyone for being here, I think. 350 01:00:38.700 --> 01:00:57.060 Ederlina Co: It I am so heartened in this moment, because there are so many young people, students who are active right, this is Jen z's moment between guns and the environment and abortion, all of these things and gen Z has stepped up to the plate at every turn that i've seen so thank you all. 351 01:00:58.860 --> 01:01:01.260 Mary Lomax-Ghirarduzzi (she/her): Thank you all will see you next time.